Terrorism
in Indonesia is less of a threat than in the past but the rise of Islamist
advocacy groups working for policy change poses another challenge to the
government.
In its latest assessment, the
International Crisis Group says many of the young men turning to extremist
violence are harboured by a growing number of Islamist NGOs campaigning against
vice, apostasy and minorities.
The Senior Advisor to the
International Crisis Group in Jakarta, Sidney Jones, says while the number of
extremist groups has actually grown, they are smaller and less well organised.
Correspondent: Karon Snowdon
Speaker: Sidney Jones, senior advisor, International Crisis Group's
Asia program
JONES: And I think that the concern
is that we're seeing a number of very small groups arise in a way that raises
the possibility we could get more attempts at violent acts even if a much more
amateurish initiative.
SNOWDON: And their focus you say is
less on foreign targets. Does that mean they're looking at domestic issues,
domestic targets potentially?
JONES: It means the police are enemy
number one. So everybody who's been killed in a terrorist action in the last
two years has been a policeman.
SNOWDON: And is it just the
effectiveness of improved policing? Have there been significant changes within
the Indonesian society at all that you can point to which has led to some of
this change in the modus operandi of groups and their fragmentation?
JONES: As Indonesian democracy has
matured, it has given rise to a whole range of groups, including some very
hard-line, one could say anti-democratic Islamist forces, which engage in
low-level violence in the name of anti-vice campaigns. For example bashing up
bars or brothels, and in some cases going after minorities that they regard as
deviants, such as the Ahmadiyah sect where we've seen Ahmadiyah property, and
in some cases people, being attacked by these groups. One of the things we're
seeing is that increasingly some of these groups are becoming almost a training
ground for people who then go on to use more serious forms of violence, no
longer sticks and clubs and iron pipes, but bombs and guns.
SNOWDON: Which could become a bigger
problem in future? What's your assessment?
JONES: Well I think we're going to
see an ongoing problem of small groups emerging out of some of these anti-vice
campaigns and it becomes increasingly important for the Indonesian government
to take these anti-vice groups seriously and to treat with absolute zero
tolerance any use of violence and any infringement of the Indonesian criminal
code. Instead of saying well these people are a nuisance but not that much of a
problem, they are a problem and need to be dealt with.
SNOWDON: And you're saying the
Indonesian government is not dealing with them enough?
JONES: I think we're seeing far too
much complacency, and in some cases active involvement of officials at a local
level because they see these groups as undertaking actions that resonate with
deeply conservative populations at the local level. So this is a case where a
very democratic society in Indonesia has given rise to some very
anti-democratic forces.
SNOWDON: And as you say the number
of these groups are increasing and perhaps their potency?
JONES: I think in terms of the
Islamist civil society groups, I think they are increasing in influence because
they are able to actually influence public policy at a local level. And that's
fine and democratic societies should have room for groups across the political
spectrum, where there shouldn't be tolerance for such groups is if they use
violence and if they actively promote hatred toward minorities in a democratic
society.
SNOWDON: And imposes on the emerging
democracy itself?
JONES: Yes, I think that it's gotten
to the point now where Indonesians have to make some pretty important
decisions. For example where do you draw the line between freedom of expression
and criminal incitement? That's an issue that all societies; Australia, the
United States, Turkey, Egypt, all of those are facing, and the threshold may
not be the same in each of those countries, but where freedom of expression
leads to direct violence against minorities that should be protected by the
state, then we've got a problem.
SNOWDON: Well other societies have
dealt with that of course. Do any neighbours, Australia included, offer models
or partial solutions?
JONES: I think that there are
models, especially in terms of working with communities, and I think one of the
needs in Indonesia now is to move away from just focussing on curbing terrorism
and that cooperation has been very effective. The need now is to see how you
deal with extremist teachings in a democratic society through working with
communities, and I do think Australia has a lot to offer. Radio Australia
interview
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