Oil, Gas, Mining, Trade and Business Updates from Indonesia
- Mitsubishi To Invest $1.5 Bln In Indonesian Petrochem Industry
- Indonesia May crude output edges up 0.25%, gas down 1.8% from Apr
- Indonesia's Pertamina Posts Growth Amid Shrinking Oil Production
- Pertamina restarts Cilacap refinery CDU-official
- Indonesia's TPPI petrochemical plant restarted-exec
- Indonesia's Pertamina eyes 1.58 mil barrels LSWR exports for June
- Asia-Pacific Crude-Condensate up; watches Indonesia
- Indonesian Govt Not To Raise Basic Electricity Rates
- Heidelberg To Sell 14.1% Of Indocement By Wednesday - Source
- HeidelbergCement may sell Malaysia assets - sources
- Indonesia's Kimia Farma Plans To Build Cancer Medicine Plant
- Indonesian Bourse Suspends Trading In Financorpindo Shares
- Foreign Portfolio Investment Up In Indonesia
- Indonesia's Economy To Be Driven By Growing Consumption
- Large Farm Lands Lost On Encroaching Urbanization In Indonesia
- Leakage Of Indonesian Exports Reaches Us$240 Bln: Prabowo
- Indonesia Confiscates Bali Liquor With Alleged Fake Tax Labels
- Eleven Embassies Actively Promoting Tourism In Indonesia
(Courtesy Joyo News Service)
Mitsubishi To Invest $1.5 Bln In Indonesian Petrochem Industry
JAKARTA, June 9 Asia pulse - Mitsubishi will build a coal-based
petrochemical factory with an investment of US$1.5 billion in
East Kalimantan, chairman of the Indonesian Chemical Industry
Federation (FIKI) Hidayat Nyakman said.
"Up to now, Mitsubishi is the only company which is serious in
making investment in the petrochemical industry sector while
others have only expressed interest," Nyakman said here on
He made the remarks after attending a discussion on the outlook
of chemical industry after the 2009 elections.
He said that the Japanese company had finished its feasibility
studies on the construction of the factory, but it was still
waiting for the government to provide support facilities to
ensure continuity in the factory`s operation.
"They are still waiting for the government`s support such as
infrastructure and tax incentives," Nyakman said.
The petrochemical factory, according to plan, will be built on a
37-hectare plot of land but Nyakman did not indicate the
location where the factory is going to be built.
Nyakman said the Mitsubishi`s factory would make the same
products as the integrated petrochemical factory of PT Chandra
Asri, but the scale of its production would be smaller than
PT Chandra Asri produces upstream and intermediate chemical
He said that Mitsubishi was also still waiting for coal supply
certainty for its raw material need. It needed 10 million tons
of coal as raw material to produce petrochemical products.
"Indonesia has big potential for petrochemical investment as it
is rich in raw materials such as oil, gas and coal reserves. But
the government`s support such as infrastructure and tax
incentive is still very small compared with that of other
counties such as Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore," he said.
Nyakman said the cost of petrochemical factory construction in
Indonesia was high because companies willing to invest in this
sector had to develop infrastructure facilities such as roads,
ports and electricity generators themselves.
Platts Commodity News
June 9, 2009
Indonesia May crude output edges up 0.25%, gas down 1.8% from Apr
Jakarta -- Indonesia's crude oil output in May 2009 edged up
0.25% to 824,783 barrels/day compared with 822,700 b/d in April,
as some field operators such as ConocoPhillips and Chevron
boosted production, an official at upstream regulator BPMigas
Indonesia pumped 116,800 b/d of condensate in May, a 1.3%
increase over April's 115,300 b/d.
Crude and condensate output in May together increased 0.38% to
941,583 b/d compared with 938,000 b/d in April.
Indonesia has seen its crude output fall because of natural
decline at aging fields. However, the country met its 2008
target for oil and condensate output of 977,000 b/d, pumping
The country is no longer an OPEC member, as it has moved from
being a net oil exporter, to a net oil importer in recent years.
It targets 960,000 b/d of oil and condensate production in 2009.
However, Indonesia had only produced 951,833 b/d of oil and
condensate on average over January-May this year.
GAS OUTPUT FALLS 1.8% FROM APRIL
The country produced 7.653 Bcf/day of gas in May or 1.8% less
than April's 7.796 Bcf/d. Indonesia produced 7.773 Bcf/d of gas
during January-May 2009, which was higher than the production
target of 7.56 Bcf/d for this year. Indonesia had initially
targeted to produce 7.326 Bcf/d of gas in 2009, Finance Minister
Sri Mulyani had said earlier. But the government revised up the
target to 7.56 Bcf/d. Total E&P Indonesia is expected to
contribute 2.66 Bcf/d, Pertamina 1.1 Bcf/d and the new Tangguh
project 500,000 Mcf/d to gas output this year, the oil and gas
director general at energy and mines ministry, Evita Legowo, has
In 2008, the government had set a gas production target of 7.757
Bcf/d, but failed to reach it as it pumped only 7.478 Bcf/d.
Indonesia has 170.1 Tcf of proven, probable and possible gas
reserves, according to BPMigas.
Indonesia's oil, condensate and gas production in 2009
January: 839,911 b/d of oil
123,268 b/ of condensate
7.643 Bcf/d of gas
February: 841,280 b/d of oil
125,100 b/d of condensate
7.982 Bcf/d of gas
March: 831,965 b/d of oil
123,060 b/d of condensate
7.789 Bcf/day of gas
April: 822,700 b/d of oil
115,300 b/d of condensate
7.796 Bcf/d of gas May:
824,783 b/d of oil
116,800 b/d of condensate
7.653 Bcf/d of gas
Anita Nugraha, newsd...@platts.com
Indonesia's Pertamina Posts Growth Amid Shrinking Oil Production
JAKARTA, June 9 Asia Pulse - Indonesian state oil and gas
company PT Pertamina recorded a strong growth in crude oil
production to 171,900 barrels per day at present from only
150,000 bpd last year.
Subsidiary Pertamina E&P contributed 125,500 bpd, Pertamina Hulu
Energi 34,700 bpd and Cepu oil field 6,700 bpd and acquired oil
fields 500 bpd.
The production level should be maintained throughout this year,
Energy and Mineral Resources Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said
Pertamina has recorded a steady increase in oil output from only
95,000 bpd in the 1990 when the country's total production
shrank from a peak of more than 1.7 million bpd early 1990s to
less than 1 million at present.
The state company has optimized production including from old
wells using the enhanced oil recovery technology, the newspaper
Bisnis Indonesia said.
Pertamina has around 160 units of oil fields with 2,782 active
wells of which 21% are producing oil.
It is also involved in ventures in units of working areas
including 31 units under Technical Assistance Contract and 10
units under joint operation and a number of units under joint
Pertamina restarts Cilacap refinery CDU-official
JAKARTA, June 9 (Reuters) - Indonesia's state oil and gas firm
Pertamina has restarted its 230,000 barrels-per-day (bpd) crude
distillation unit (CDU) at its Cilacap refinery after an
unplanned outage last week, a company official said on Tuesday.
Pertamina shut the CDU on Wednesday after an emergency tube
burst, causing a fire.
"We have restarted the CDU and at a low capacity. The capacity
will be increased gradually," said the official, who declined to
Pertamina spokesman Basuki Trikora Putra said previously the CDU
would be restarted at 60 percent capacity and would gradually be
increased to 100 percent within a few days.
Cilacap refinery, Indonesia's biggest and located in Central
Java province, has two CDUs. The other one has a capacity of
Last week, Pertamina's marketing director Achmad Faisal said the
company planned to import about 4-5 million barrels of gasoline
in July and about 2.4 million barrels of diesel oil.
Indonesia is Asia's biggest importer of oil products.
Pertamina's nine refineries have a combined capacity of around 1
million barrels per day (bpd). But it only supplies 70 percent
of domestic oil product consumption and 30 percent comes from
(Reporting by Muklis Ali; Editing by Ed Davies)
Platts Commodity News June 9, 2009
Indonesia's TPPI petrochemical plant restarted-exec
JAKARTA, June 9 (Reuters) - Indonesia's Trans Pacific
Petrochemical Indotama (TPPI) petrochemical plant has been
restarted and is running at a capacity of 35,000 barrels per day
of condensate, an executive from its main shareholder said on
Amir Sambodo, president director of PT Tuban Petrochemical
Industries, which has a 59.5 percent stake in TPPI, said the
plant had initially been expected to resume operations last
month after a 15-month shutdown.
"The plant has been restarted and we began with 35,000 barrels
per day capacity. We will gradually increase the capacity in
future," Sambodo told Reuters.
"We are seeking to import condensate from abroad to increase the
capacity. Imports will be around 50,000 barrels per day to
60,000 barrels per day," he added.
The TPPI petrochemical and refining complex in Tuban, East Java
province, had been closed since February last year due to
breaches in a breakwater wall protecting the plant from the sea.
The complex, which has a condensate splitter with a capacity of
100,000 bpd, also failed to reopen earlier after a plunge in the
price of petrochemicals compounded its problems.
TPPI signed a deal with Indonesian state oil and gas firm
Pertamina in December to supply it with gasoline, enabling TPPI
to produce lower volumes of aromatics and more auto fuel to help
TPPI has the capacity to produce 50,000 bpd of gasoline, but it
is unclear whether all will be committed to Pertamina.
"We will focus on midlle distillate output at the moment. If we
process 100,000 barrels per day of condensate then we can
produce 50,000 barrels per day of gasoline," Sambodo said, who
declined to say when TPPI would start supplying gasoline to
Indonesia is Asia's top gasoline importer and the deal with TPPI
will in turn help Pertamina limit gasoline imports.
Pertamina has a 15 percent stake in TPPI, while Siam Cement of
Thailand and Japanese firms Sojitz Corp and Itochu Corp hold the
remaining stakes. (Reporting by Muklis Ali; Editing by Ed Davies)
Platts Commodity News June 9, 2009
Indonesia's Pertamina eyes 1.58 mil barrels LSWR exports for June
Singapore -- Indonesia's state-owned refiner Pertamina has
allocated up to 1.58 million barrels of low sulfur waxy residue
for export in June, up 320,000 barrels from May, industry
sources said Thursday.
The cargoes include two of 200,000 barrels each of mixed-cracked
LSWR and four of V-500 LSWR from its Balikpapan refinery.
The mixed-cracked LSWR will go to Japanese term-lifter Mitsui,
while the four V-500 LSWR cargoes will go to term lifters
Japan's Itochu and Toyota Tsusho Corporation and Malaysia's
Petronas, sources said. Toyota will lift two parcels of V-500
The company will also export 200,000 barrels of straight run
LSWR from Cilacap, 100,000 barrels of straight run LSWR from
Sungai Pakning and 80,000 barrels from Kasim refinery. These
cargoes are likely to go to Pertamina's trade affiliates Petral
or PPT, sources said.
Jonathan Nonis, jonathan_no...@platts.com
Asia-Pacific Crude-Condensate up; watches Indonesia
SINGAPORE, June 9 (Reuters) - Asia-Pacific crude market was
steady as traders awaited the result of Indonesia's monthly
tender, due on Wednesday, to give an indication of the direction
of front-month trading.
But condensate market rose after Indonesia's TPPI refining and
petrochemical complex restarted after 15-month shutdown, seeking
to import condensate from abroad.
Malaysia has closed its second tender selling July Dar Blend
crude, one of the last July cargoes to be moved.
- Asian oil exporter Brunei has raised the retroactive official
selling price (OSP) of its crude for May by $7.50 a barrel from
April, with flagship Seria Light set at $53.76. [ID:nSP182315]
- Malaysia's state oil company Petronas has closed on Tuesday a
tender to sell 1.0 million barrels of Sudanese Dar Blend crude
for July loading, a trade source said. [ID:nSP355416]
- State-run Hindustan Petroleum Corp has issued its regular
monthly tender to import sweet crude oil for August loading,
traders said. [ID:nT112055]
- Indonesia's Trans Pacific Petrochemical Indotama (TPPI)
petrochemical plant has been restarted and is running at a
capacity of 35,000 barrels per day of condensate, an executive
from its main shareholder said. [ID:nJAK219459]
- Japanese refiner Cosmo Oil Co said on Tuesday it plans to
refine 1.64 million kilolitres (344,000 barrels per day) of
crude oil this month, down 20.7 percent from a year earlier,
reflecting a slide in domestic oil demand. [ID:nT107101]
- Chevron Corp said on Tuesday it had secured customers in Japan
and South Korea for about 70 percent of liquefied natural gas
(LNG) supply from its multi-billion dollar Gorgon project in
- The fuel oil spread fell 70 cents a barrel to minus $7.45 to
- The gas oil crack fell 15 cents to $7.15 a barrel to Dubai
- July ICE Brent
0830 GMT versus the close of Asian trade on Monday, on a falling
U.S. dollar. (Reporting by Judy Hua; Editing by Ben Tan)
Indonesian Govt Not To Raise Basic Electricity Rates
SEMARANG, S Java, June 9 Asia pulse - Indonesia's Energy and
Mineral Resources Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said that the
government would not raise the electricity basic tariffs (TDL)
on the people`s and nation`s interest.
"At present, the government is providing power and fuel oil
subsidies for the people amounting to Rp175 trillion ($US17.5
billion), which is lower than our receipts in this sector last
year which stood at Rp350 trillion," he said during a working
visit here on Monday.
Therefore, he said, there were still a relatively large
remainder that could be used as a subsidy. "But the amount of
subsidy would depend on the developments of crude price in the
world market. Because now is still in June, we could not yet
know the amount of revenues and of subsidies," the minister said.
He said that based on the experience in the past years, the
subsidies were always bigger than revenues, so that this year it
was believed that in the energy sector there would still be
profit that could contribute to the state and nation.
"We hope that the electricity rate would not be raised up to
next October because I will still serve up to October 2009.
After October 2009, I have no idea because it would be under the
new government," the minister said.
In the meantime, General Manager of state-owned power utility
company PLN for Central Java and Yogyakarta distribution, Ferry
Krisna said the government`s decision not to raise the
electricity tariffs would not disturb power supplies to the
regions. This is because every thing had been prepared before
the beginning of the budget year.
"We are facing no problem in the present condition, where the
tariff rates are not raised by the government, because we have
made calculations and preparations in the first place," he said.
Heidelberg To Sell 14.1% Of Indocement By Wednesday - Source
JAKARTA (Dow Jones)--German cement maker HeidelbergCement AG
(HEI.XE) is poised to sell 14.1% of Indocement Tunggal Prakarsa
(INTP.JK) by Wednesday, a person involved with the deal told Dow
The stake is equal to 520.5 million shares in the company.
Heidelberg is conducting book-building for the sale late Tuesday
and hopes to complete the sale by Wednesday, the source said.
HeidelbergCement may sell Malaysia assets - sources
* German cement-maker may sell Malaysian assets at $250 mln
* Firm eyes assets sales in Indonesia, Australia
By Saeed Azhar and Michael Flaherty
SINGAPORE/HONG KONG, June 9 (Reuters) - HeidelbergCement is
looking to sell assets in Malaysia for at least $250 million,
two sources told Reuters, as the German cement maker tries to
HeidelbergCement has been active in Malaysia since the
acquisition of British rival Hanson in August 2007, producing
ready-mixed concrete, aggregates and asphalt, according to its
Standard Chartered is advising on the sale of these assets, said
the sources, who declined to be identified because the deal is
Reuters reported last week that lenders to troubled
HeidelbergCement have been given an extra week to approve the
company's loan restructuring plans [ID:nL1308021].
The Malaysian assets, whose sale may take a few months to
complete, may draw interest from private equity firms, one of
the sources with direct knowledge of the deal told Reuters.
HeidelbergCement and Standard Chartered declined to comment.
The German firm is laden with debt resulting from the takeover
of Hanson and is selling assets around the world such as a stake
in an Indonesian cement-maker and Australia businesses.
The firm, controlled by the son of late billionaire Adolf
Merckle, is mulling an application for German state aid, a
source told Reuters last month [ID:nLS939058].
Merckle, one of Germany's richest men and best-known
industrialists, killed himself in January after losing heavily
on the stock market.
The entrepreneur, ranked in 2007 by Forbes as the world's
44th-wealthiest man with a fortune of $12 billion, left behind
an empire with three pillars -- HeidelbergCement, generics
drugmaker Ratiopharm and drug wholesaler Phoenix.
HeidelbergCement shares have fallen more than 70 percent over
the past year. (additional reporting by Hendrick Sackmann in
Stuttgart; Editing by Dhara Ranasinghe)
Indonesia's Kimia Farma Plans To Build Cancer Medicine Plant
JAKARTA, June 9 Asia Pulse - Indonesian state pharmaceutical
company PT Kimia Farma (JSX:KAEF) plans to build a cancer
medicine plant in the country in cooperation with India's
Production Director of Kimia Farma Jisman Siagian said the two
companies are holding intensive discussions on the project.
Jisman said Kimia Farma agrees to import cancer medicines
produced by the Indian company until they produce them in the
Construction of the factory will likely begin next year, he said
without giving more details.
Indonesian Bourse Suspends Trading In Financorpindo Shares
Jakarta, June 9 Asia pulse - The Indonesian Stock Exchange (BEI)
has suspended trading in PT Financorpindo Nusa shares since the
first trading session on Tuesday (June 9).
The suspension was conducted following a finding of incorrect
bookkeeping entry and inaccurate report on the Adjusted Net
Working Capital (MKBD).
BEI President Director Erry Firmansyah in an information opening
here on Tuesday said the bourse would maintain the suspension
until Financorpindo correct its MKBD report accurately.
PT Financorpindo Nusa office is located at Wisma Nusantara fl.
26th, MH Thamrin Boulevard kav. 59, central Jakarta. The
company`s president commissioner, Amelia Hariyono, owns 70 per
cent or the majority of the securities company`s shares.
Foreign Portfolio Investment Up In Indonesia
JAKARTA, June 9 Asia Pulse - The value of Bank Indonesia
promissory notes (SBI) held by foreign investors rose to Rp23.4
trillion (US$2.34 billion) in May, up from Rp23.1 trillion a
Deputy Governor of Bank Indonesia Hartadi A Sarwono said foreign
investment has also increases in stock market marked with the
rise in the composite index of the Indonesian Stock Exchange.
Meanwhile, foreign investment in state bonds rose to Rp86.9
trillion in May from Rp86.2 trillion in April. earlier. to
The increases contributed to strengthening the rupiah, now
hovering at the level of 10,000 to the US dollar from around
11,000 a few weeks before.
Currently foreign capital is used mainly for portfolio
investment but some of the funds may be used later for direct
investment, Hartadi was quoted as saying by the newspaper
Indonesia's Economy To Be Driven By Growing Consumption
JAKARTA, June 9 Asia Pulse - Growing consumption will remain the
driving motor for Indonesia's economy in the second half of the
year, a cabinet minister said.
The investment sector is also expected to recover in the second
half of the year contributing to the country's economic revival,
Finance Minister Sri Mulyani Indrawati said.
Banks are also expected to start funneling more funds to the
real sector after the recent cuts in central bank's benchmark
interest rates, Sri Mulyani said.
In addition, the government is spending big funds in the form of
stimulus in the second and third quarter of this year, she added.
Indonesia has managed to chalk up significant growth in the
first quarter of this year when many other countries suffered a
The better than expected performance in the first three months
of this year has apparently prompted the International Monetary
Fund to revise up its forecast for the country's economic growth
this year to 3 per cent-4 per cent this year from 2.5 per cent
Large Farm Lands Lost On Encroaching Urbanization In Indonesia
JAKARTA, June 9 Asia Pulse - Encroaching urbanization is causing
the loss of around 125,000 hectares of Indonesia's productive
farm lands every year.
Shrinking farm lands not only threatens the country's food
resilience but also increases the number of people living below
the poverty line especially among Indonesia's farmers, observers
Based on data at the Central Bureau of Statistics the ratio of
meagre farmers to farm households grew from 51.9 per cent in
1993 to 53.9 per cent in 2003 and to 55.1 per cent in 2008, the
newspaper Investor Daily said.
Indonesian farmer association (HKTI) advisor Siswono Yudhohusodo
said new rice-fields built by the government are not significant
to make up for the loss caused by urbanization.
The expansion of farm lands is not proportional with the growing
number of farm families, the newspaper Investor Daily quoted
Winarno Tohir, another leader of farmers' association.
Leakage Of Indonesian Exports Reaches Us$240 Bln: Prabowo
BEKASI, W Java, June 9 Asia Pulse - The leakage of the proceeds
of the Indonesia`s natural wealth exports over the past 12 years
reached Rp2,400 trillion (US$240 billion), vice presidential
candidate of the Greater Indonesian Movement (Gerindra), Prabowo
"Our country is more liberal than the West. Based on data
available with the central bureau of statistics (BPS),
Indonesia`s export proceeds from 1997 to 2008, reach about Rp250
trillion per annum. So, the total for a 12 year-period is
Rp3,000 trillion. But data recorded by Bank Indonesia (BI/the
central bank) showed the proceeds are only Rp600 trillion. So,
where did the other Rp2,400 trillion go?" he said here over the
He said that the case was an indication that the country`s
economic system had failed to guard natural wealth so that
export leakage reached Rp200 trillion per annum.
"If the Rp2,400 funds stayed in the government`s reserves it
would have a tax collection of 30 per cent worth Rp800 trillion
and this would be able to meet the people`s need for
development," he added.
He said that the government did not learn a lesson from the
economic crisis in 1998 when Indonesia lost a fund of Rp800
trillion in the case of BI`s liquidity support credit assistance
(BLBI), but repeated the same mistake.
"The government should have carried out recovery over the BLBI
case but it did the same mistake instead," he said.
Prabowo said that up to now no one was able to explain where the
hundreds of trillions of funds went over the past 12 years.
"Some of the economic professors do not directly face the real
business world (where there are smuggling, mark ups,
embezzlement, illegal levies) but grappled with figures in
campuses," he said.
Prabowo said the government should not have depended on foreign
funds to cover the people`s need if the funds obtained from
natural wealth exports could be utilized maximally.
Indonesia Confiscates Bali Liquor With Alleged Fake Tax Labels
JAKARTA, June 9 Asia Pulse - Tourists in Bali may find it harder
to find a stiff drink after authorities confiscated thousands of
bottles of liquor from some of the holiday island's top hotels,
restaurants and bars.
Indonesian customs officials have seized the booze, from
high-end establishments in popular tourist areas like Kuta and
Nusa Dua, because the bottles allegedly have counterfeit tax
The tourism industry fears the seizures will lead to an alcohol
shortage which may deter tourists from visiting Bali in what is
traditionally the high season.
"We've asked for this confiscation process to be temporarily
suspended because we are running out of stocks," said Perry
Markus, head of the Bali branch of the Indonesian Hotel and
Ida Bagus Subhiksu, head of the Bali Tourism Board, believes the
raids could damage Bali's international reputation.
"We asked the customs office to stop the process and if they
have to do something, please continue it later on, after the
high season," Subhiksu said.
The raids come after at least 26 people, including four foreign
tourists, were killed in Bali and nearby Lombok by drinking
local rice wine - known as arak - tainted with methanol.
Arak has become increasingly popular in Bali since a government
crackdown on imported alcohol forced up the price of spirits and
Eleven Embassies Actively Promoting Tourism In Indonesia
PADANG, W Sumatra, June 9 Asia Pulse - Eleven Indonesian
embassies are actively promoting Indonesia`s tourism through
their diplomats and Indonesian citizens domiciled in foreign
countries, a senior tourism official said.
Diplomats in the eleven embassies were playing extraordinary
roles by launching the Indonesian tourism promotions, Nia
Nurchaya, director for convention, incentive and promotion
affairs at the Tourism and Culture Ministry, said here on
She said the eleven Indonesian embassies were those in
Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, Japan, South Korea, China,
India, Britain, The Netherlands, Germany and Saudi Arabia.
Among the efforts they made included approaches to tourism
operators in the countries concerned and distribution of
brochures on Indonesian tourism to the tourism agents.
"The Indonesian embassies provided funds for the organization of
the tourism fun trips. They also disclosed agencies and media
organizations which could provide positive impact on Indonesian
tourism," she said.
The number of foreign tourists who visited Indonesia during the
first quarter of this year reached 1,893,155, she said here over
"Most of the foreign tourists who arrived in the country in the
first quarter of this year came from Australia, Malaysia and
China," Nia Nurchaya, director for tourism convention, incentive
and promotion affairs of the directorate general for tourism and
She said that the number of foreign tourist arrivals in the
first quarter of 2009 increased 1.53 per cent if compared to
those arriving in the same period a year earlier.
The increase in the tourist visits in the first quarter is
significant encouraging as it happens at a time when the country
is facing the impact of global economic crisis.
Nurchaya said that the international tourist flows in other
countries in the first quarter of 2009 were declining.